I am waiting in line. “Can I help you?” the woman behind the counter asks. I’m about to step up and give my order when I realize she’s talking to the guy behind me! I’ve been “overlooked” enough times by sales persons to have gotten used to it. That doesn’t mean I accept it, however. “Excuse me,” I say, “I think I was here first”. The counter person seems a bit flustered and redirects her attention but doesn’t apologize or anything.
Since this sort of thing has gone on all my life, I’ve given some thought to it. Is it because I am short? No, I don’t think so. I am below average height, but not nearly so short as to be unseen over the average sales counter. For a long time I assumed the problem, when occurring in higher priced establishments was based on class perceptions. If I was wearing a shirt from a thrift shop (often my preference), I must not have enough money to pay for something from Macy’s, so they would naturally ignore me.
But now I’m thinking that wasn’t it either. I think it is something like what Joel has written about here. There is something unassertive about my very presence I’ve been told. I just seem to “seem” like I’m not really there somehow. Spacey or something. Maybe without knowing what it is they are seeing, people perceive that there is something different, and therefore frightening about me.
Or maybe they think that I will go away if they ignore me. For a long time I did. For years I walked away from situations like the one I described here, frustrated and confused. Without getting what I’d come for, I just left, with the feeling I had slipped into the twilight zone, unsure the experience had even really happened. I never told anyone about these encounters. Why would I expect them to believe me? I was half convinced myself that this couldn't really be true.
Not long ago, I worked in a business where one of the employees had taken a dislike to me. When I said hello to her in the morning, she pretended not to hear. She said nothing at all, unless someone else was there to witness it. The few times I needed to ask her work related questions, she also ignored me. I was determined not to “catch” her rudeness, and always made a point to say hello in the morning and to include her when I offered to get coffee for other staff members.
I described the situation to another person I know. “What did you do to her?” he asked. “You must have done something!” I really don’t think I did, but I may well be wrong. I tried to ask her once if there was something we needed to talk about, but I never got an answer. I guess she didn’t hear me.
Since this sort of thing has gone on all my life, I’ve given some thought to it. Is it because I am short? No, I don’t think so. I am below average height, but not nearly so short as to be unseen over the average sales counter. For a long time I assumed the problem, when occurring in higher priced establishments was based on class perceptions. If I was wearing a shirt from a thrift shop (often my preference), I must not have enough money to pay for something from Macy’s, so they would naturally ignore me.
But now I’m thinking that wasn’t it either. I think it is something like what Joel has written about here. There is something unassertive about my very presence I’ve been told. I just seem to “seem” like I’m not really there somehow. Spacey or something. Maybe without knowing what it is they are seeing, people perceive that there is something different, and therefore frightening about me.
Or maybe they think that I will go away if they ignore me. For a long time I did. For years I walked away from situations like the one I described here, frustrated and confused. Without getting what I’d come for, I just left, with the feeling I had slipped into the twilight zone, unsure the experience had even really happened. I never told anyone about these encounters. Why would I expect them to believe me? I was half convinced myself that this couldn't really be true.
Not long ago, I worked in a business where one of the employees had taken a dislike to me. When I said hello to her in the morning, she pretended not to hear. She said nothing at all, unless someone else was there to witness it. The few times I needed to ask her work related questions, she also ignored me. I was determined not to “catch” her rudeness, and always made a point to say hello in the morning and to include her when I offered to get coffee for other staff members.
I described the situation to another person I know. “What did you do to her?” he asked. “You must have done something!” I really don’t think I did, but I may well be wrong. I tried to ask her once if there was something we needed to talk about, but I never got an answer. I guess she didn’t hear me.
27 comments:
If someone is rude to me I retaliate with politeness.
When I was buying groceries last week, the bagger asked "Are you all right?"
I said, "Yes, why do you ask?"
She said, "Well, you look distant."
Unfortunately I was in a hurry and didn't have time to give her a lecture on why it wasn't her business to pass judgment on a customer's appearance.
Hard to tell how literal you're being with the 'people don't see me' thought, but I've experienced literally just that more often than I'd be able to count. It generally happens when I'm sitting somewhere though, not when I'm standing in line... people simply don't notice that I'm there. I don't expect a greeting, generally, so it doesn't bother me when it happens, but it's always interesting to watch people jump when I say something or wave to a new arrival or whatever. I've also had the opportunity to hear several private meetings between my boss and various co-workers because she didn't notice me sitting at the computer near her desk, and I didn't notice that the meeting was private 'till it was too late to leave without it being awkward. I, for one, consider my variant of this more of a blessing than a curse.
Just an anecdotal thought, here, but I have both worked customer service desks and have autistic people in my family -- do you think it's about eye contact? I could see myself, way back when as a young 20-something customer service person, assuming the person smiling at me and making eye contact was first in line, and the person staring off sideways was probably just waiting for a friend. This is what the "take a number" things are for IMO.
I've run into that silent treatment problem too; it was as if I had gotten stuck in some glass box. It’s a strange hollow, invisible kind of feeling. As though I could fade away just sitting there, because my own personal reality has so little bearing on what happens ... brr!
I have many times experienced the phenomenon you describe.
When I am in corporate attire and on the job people watch me.....follow me, take cues from me. It is very weird for me.....I wonder what is so different about me-if it is perception of power. I am now perceived to have power therefore people are differential to me?
I have for many years caught attitude from women as described......I think it is a form of female bullying and an alpha/beta/omega animal behavior. I have actually had to call some girls out professionally and tell them that their future with the company was on the line and that the attitude was not working for them.
The alphas are the leaders, the beta follow and and the omega's are picked on by everyone.
Do petty shallow people see autistics as omegas that deserve to be picked on? Is doing this a way to establish superiority?
I think some humans are inclined to follow this animal kingdom paradigm which probably originates from them not really being in any sort of control of life.
Just my two cents.....I think about this a lot tho. I deal with a lot of NT people that I have to convince to do things my way (because that is part of my job. I just got promoted to lead auctioneer and I got a sales award) and I read a lot of psych and negotiation books.
~Sarah
Maybe it has to do with body language/eye contact. Sometimes my daughter stands at the counter in a way that it makes it seems like she is just "there", she doesn't look like she's in line.
Combine that with the rush-rush atmosphere of a Northeastern city, and her natural shyness, and she gets looked over too.
The job stuff you mentioned is not unique to autism. That happens to everyone, and it is most likely something wrong with the "excluder". You are doing what all the experts say to do...kill 'em with kindness.
I've encountered this sort of experience as well.
What's particularly frustrating is when I say something and it goes completely ignored, then someone else repeats the same thing almost verbatim and is given credit for it.
Thanks to all who commented here. Yes, I do think the eye contact/body language is an issue. I make an extra effort to be "present" in these situations, and I also think that this is something that needs to be brought to the attention of the general public. Like most autistics, I work pretty hard at doing things in the socially accepted ways. It would be nice to see typical people making more of an effort to recognize that some of us have differences in non-verbal communication, too. Where is the "theory of mind" in people who assume they know what someone is thinking (or not thinking) just because that's what it would mean if they looked like that?
Sarah,
Congratulations on your promotion!
I experience this kind of thing all the time. I get the invisibility thing, and I also get a variant of what Joel was talking about in his post: if I go somewhere alone, people around me ask "Are you all right?" or "Are you sick?" (Once when I was out walking, someone at a restaurant made me sit down and gave me a glass of water).
I know I have a very hard time looking at people--at all--and I have trouble knowing how close I am to things (e.g. counters), so probably stand farther away than most people do. And I sometimes talk very quietly, especially around strangers.
My 6th grade science teacher once told my mom that "I often forget she's there!"
I was with Wendy Lawson after she'd given a talk to a packed hall. She and I walked down the corridor with another woman to take a small lift (elevator) down afterwards. It went through three floors with just Wendy, the woman and me. The whole way down, the woman talked to me about Wendy and how great her talk had been. I was puzzled - why wasn't she telling Wendy herself?! When we had got out at the bottom and taken two or three steps, the woman suddenly exclaimed "Wendy! you're there!!!" - it seems she had not seen Wendy at all until that moment. Wendy tells me something like this has happened to her often. I'm lousy at eye contact myself, so do not think that explains this occurrence at least.
Just blogged about this myself, inspired by your post :)
Really good to know that someone else has experienced this!
Thanks for this good post and comments.
I've long experienced this social invisibility, but have only become fully conscious of it in recent years. In my case, I think it's been a form of unconscious camouflage which began very young. In crowds, it's not unusual for people to back into me and be very startled by my presence.
Sorry if this is a bit incomprehensible, if I start making corrections I’ll never post it. Something similar happens to me quite often. People don’t notice me and forget I was part of something a lot. This doesn't surprise me since I don't pay much attention to other people and have a horrible memory for names but anyone who was around me longer pointed it out or caught themselves doing it. Most recent example would be that of a close friend telling me in detail about a discussion he had a few weeks back with two other people until his girl reminded him I was also there. From what we talked about it this and all other occurrences like people standing next to me asking someone I’m talking with if they’ve seen me most likely has something to do with body language or some other subconscious process. As for the silent treatment, never came across it but I’m guessing she has a problem, possibly with You, but it’s her problem so let her have it all and just continue doing whatever You think is right.
regards
I have had people for no reason hated me. Alot of them told all kinds of lies. Which management believed. I would end up getting harassed from all sides. People also thought I was angry, mad or looking for a fight. but I would get harassed to the point that I would quit. I have been thru a lot of jobs because of this. I recently found out that I am an aspie. I told my new boss and so far it seems better. Only time will tell.
I too have been overlooked, but it never bothers me as much as when the staff decides to "Help" me. I was in line at the grocery store and having a hard time filtering out the usual noise. In addition to my nervousness, it caused my motor skills to drop, so that I had to unload my basket with one hand;as I couldn't let go of my music player in the other. Sometimes, it just won't happen for me. Anyway, the clerk dashes out from the end of the counter and starts putting my things on the counter for me. I was too shocked and ashamed to say anything. I just paid for my things and left as fast as possible. I know they were trying to help, but it really upset me and made me feel defective. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had ASKED if I wanted help. Oh well. So it goes.
While out in public, I always need to have a book with me. The world can quickly become overwhelming, and reading helps me to focus. While waiting in lines and reading, people sometimes walk around me as if I'm not there. This happened throughout my childhood and continues to happen now that I am an adult, but I still find it nearly impossible to speak up when people do this to me.
I had no idea that other people besides myself were 'invisible!' Thank for for making invisibility visible!
Such a topic as this one is very interesting . . . at least to those of us who others ignore.
Blimey, got a link to you from Sheila Schoonmaker - I am Sheilas friend. I know exactly what you talk abt, my response at first thought would be to develop a louder more assertive persona, yet my aspi trait would possibly over-ride that and I would blush and feel very uncomfortable. Luckily my wife shops for me. I hate shops - a lot.
As a "milder case" NLD, I experience this sometimes, but have a bit more control over it -- if I'm not already frazzled, I can "push" back into the NT's social context and be noticed.
I do think it says a lot about NT perceptions; just today I had an odd experience which may be related. I was out with various family members including my sister and her kids, down at a local nature reserve (Ivy Creek, in Charlottesville, VA). At one point, I'd spotted a couple of snakes hanging out, and called them over to see. Both my sister and her kids came over; on a river bank two feet ahead of us, were two snakes, about two feet long -- dull colors, but they were right out in the open... and nobody else could see those snakes, until I pointed straight at them! I found that very odd, especially since I'd spotted them from some distance.
(On the other hand, my camera's display rendered them darn near invisible -- to get pictures, I had to look for nearby branches to frame the shot.)
And then you have the opposite of that, when they do notice you and you're like, WTF??? towards what they say.
Example: http://lastcrazyhorn.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/may-i-help-you/
Dear Bev,
Hey, my name is Sahar, I am with www.WeAreautism.org. I'm sorry about your experience standing in line. Your blogs are interesting especially for individuals that are either afflicted by autism themselves or have family members afflicted by it. There are a prolific group of members on the website that I know would be keen to read your blogs. I think that weareautism.org will be of great interest and use to you as you will have the opportunity to interact with people that are in similar situations as yourself. Amongst us, there are dedicated users that will avidly read your blogs and it would be great if you could come and leave your comments/thoughts. Below I have given the guest access information. Look forward to hearing from you.
website: www.WeAreautism.org
username: guest1
password: weare1
Many thanks,
Sahar
I seem to be able to actively use this... I can walk into a room and direct attention to my presence and then get forgotten instantly. I have used it to eavesdrop before. More than once.
But what about those who have put their groceries on the counter and are the only ones in line?
Something that sticks out for me - Even if I make it clear that I'm watching them, with or without eye contact, I have been ignored. They find that they needed change or some such stuff.
I didn't use to think that autism was even a possibility for me because no one ever told me that there was a problem or that was a possibility. They've just settled for saying I'm 'different' or 'so quiet' or 'off in my own world' amongst other things. But it explains so much more than anything I have ever *EVER* found. I've done more than just a couple of searches... a WHOLE lot more. And I have someone who has backed me up on that with more than just a tidbit or two of having witnessed me in 'action' so to speak, so I know I'm not imagining things.
It's nice to know that should this be the my case, there are sites I can go to for where I know I won't be the only one.
I find it hard to believe that someone would overlook the person at the head of the line. The only possible exception is if you were not just "spacey" but like standing off to one side, staring at the wall, or otherwise apparently signaling that you were not in line but simply standing there for some other purpose (like waiting for someone).
After all, as far as I know, the hated breed of "neurotypicals" (curse their name!) does not have built-in autism-detection superpowers.
What I would ask is ... why, when the person ahead of you finished and left, did you not step up and place your order?
Not trying to be harsh, except inasmuch as I'm saying you shouldn't criticize the counterperson for missing you. I strongly doubt she had some secret vendetta against you; she was probably trying her best to avoid either 1) ignoring someone who actually wanted to place an order or 2) bothering someone who didn't want to. She made a mistake.
I like to make experiences with people. Sometimes I enter a magazine with a certain attitude just to see what will be the outcome.So, If you are ignored in a line maybe you are avoiding eye contact. When you don't look at people's eyes you tell them you don't what to interact. Probably the person behind you is all anxious and in a hurry and all her body language is calling for the store clerk's attention. I do it all the time, I make miself so visible that others are overlooked, of course I don't take their turn. Other times I feel sad or bothered in some way and I keep more to myself, I look to the floor and that makes me invisible!!!
Also, a smile helps make ourselves noticed! And believe me, most of the time people are minding their own business, worrying about their own problems, not everyone is out to get you although sometimes it may seem that way. In my experience the way we feel about ourselves may make us perceive judgments in other peoples attitudes that are not really there.
I the mother of an autistic boy and this is what I would say to him.
thx for ur post, Bev... i hv AS, and to be visible in superficial everyday life (like work, checkout counters etc) i hv to 'act' - hv become good at it but it makes me feel tired and unwell alot... but in intimate friendships or relationships, when i dont wish to 'act' anymore, sometimes, i get treated as invisible and one of these has gone on for a bit too long now, so i hv to take courage and get out of it asap... make my own visibility no matter what happens...
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